We did not get a decent photo of 17 Douglass or 24311 Fairway Lane, but there were two late model white Mercedes Benzs parked in the driveway of Douglass and a newer white BMW parked in the driveway of Fairway Lane.
So many thoughts came to mind whilst researching this post.
The records accessible to us on line without physically paying a visit to the county recorders office only go back to 1999, so the facts as we observe them will have to start in 1999.
The subject of this post is a married couple who, through loans and leverage, ended up owning probably over twenty homes. We will not include over twenty because some of the properties that appear to be owned by this couple are not verifiable by middle name and it is possible that there is another home owner in Orange County with the same first and last name. Six of the twenty listed homes are located in Coto de Caza and twelve of the twenty homes listed are in the foreclosure process as of two weeks ago. Five of the six homes in Coto are in foreclosure. None of the homes located in Coto de Caza are listed for sale and other than 16 Hubbard Way, I do not remember any of the properties having been listed for sale by the present owners. This couple may “own” more homes outside of Orange County and more of the homes listed may have had a Notice of Default filed against them within the last two weeks. None of the homes listed are owned without a mortgage and most, if not all, appear to be underwater.
A quick synopsis for those who are wondering what this post is about and how these folks managed to become land barons and why they are losing their properties to foreclosure: They bought a home. They borrowed on the equity in their home to make a down payment on another home. They borrowed on the equity on both homes to use as down payments on more homes. They may have paid for this exquisite formula for becoming land barons to a late night TV infomercial professing how to buy real estate with “No Money Down”. The rents they collect pay some of the mortgage payments, but not all. The rest of the rental expenses comes from equity withdrawal as do living expenses. This process continues as long as residential real estate appreciates and the land barons can continue to borrow money against the “equity” in their properties. As soon as they can not borrow money to pay their debts, their debts do not get paid. They are taking their example from the federal government, except that the land barons do not have the ability to print more money.
This post does not surprise me. I grew up in a So Cal beach town where there were always a few land barons who purchased properties using equity in other properties as down payments and leveraged up until such time the market stopped appreciating and the house of cards came tumbling down.
Some of my thoughts: Are these land barons applying for loan mods? I certainly hope not. And if so, I hope there is some type of fraud involved. Since almost all these properties were refinanced, will the lenders pursue recourse by recovery through other assets and wages for the rest of the land baron’s lives? Does declaration of bankruptcy negate recourse? I hope not. Will the lenders end up having to pay for this? I doubt it; my cynical nature tells me the taxpayers will pay for it, either directly or through currency devaluation. Do the folks renting these homes know that the homes are in foreclosure, in default, and how do they feel about it? What portion of the rents that the land barons are collecting are they using to pay the mortgages and association fees, and property taxes? Did you know that banks enter and treat uncollected monthly mortgage payments as income until such time they foreclose? And you were wondering why the banks kept on postponing the trustee sale. Let that sink in for a few moments. Do these land barons have any other occupation other than pulling equity out of homes they are collecting rent from? If you want to know who to blame, blame the voters who vote for representation that supports a central bank with the ability to print money and manipulate interest rates. Only with a fiat currency and fractional reserve banking can banks loan money, (debt), they do not have. Regulation will not and can not stop this behavior. Regulation caused it.
What are your thoughts?
This first list shows the homes located in Coto de Caza first and shows the transactions associated with each home.
| address | date | purchase price | 1st loan amount | 2nd loan amount | NOD | NTS |
| 52 Panorama CDC | 7/29/99 | $839,000 | $587,270 | |||
| 52 Panorama CDC | 6/20/00 | $862,500 | ||||
| 52 Panorama CDC | 8/21/01 | $937,500 | ||||
| 52 Panorama CDC | 11/13/02 | $926,250 | ||||
| 52 Panorama CDC | 6/9/04 | $920,000 | $300,000 | |||
| 52 Panorama CDC | 9/23/09 | $5,977 | ||||
| 16 Hubbard Way CDC | 7/31/00 | $599,500 | $479,442 | |||
| 16 Hubbard Way CDC | 2/21/01 | $600,000 | ||||
| 16 Hubbard Way CDC | 10/11/02 | $700,000 | ||||
| 16 Hubbard Way CDC | 9/5/03 | $840,000 | ||||
| 16 Hubbard Way CDC | 8/31/04 | $1,007,500 | ||||
| 16 Hubbard Way CDC | 10/13/06 | $250,000 | ||||
| 16 Hubbard Way CDC | 9/23/09 | $5,973 | ||||
| 17 Douglass CDC | 9/28/01 | $684,500 | $547,350 | $68,400 | ||
| 17 Douglass CDC | 1/9/03 | $700,000 | $87,500 | |||
| 17 Douglass CDC | 9/23/09 | $6,016 | ||||
| 9 Rocky Mountain CDC | 12/10/02 | $1,281,500 | $961,086 | |||
| 9 Rocky Mountain CDC | 12/12/03 | $1,400,000 | ||||
| 9 Rocky Mountain CDC | 1/18/06 | $250,000 | ||||
| 9 Rocky Mountain CDC | 7/20/06 | $1,670,000 | ||||
| 9 Rocky Mountain CDC | 9/23/09 | $6,017 | ||||
| 11 Lyra Way CDC | 1/12/99 | $451,500 | $406,300 | |||
| 11 Lyra Way CDC | 5/12/99 | |||||
| 11 Lyra Way CDC | 8/19/99 | $573,750 | ||||
| 11 Lyra Way CDC | 12/3/03 | $80,000 | ||||
| 11 Lyra Way CDC | 3/3/05 | $577,500 | ||||
| 11 Lyra Way CDC | 4/28/06 | $738,000 | ||||
| 11 Lyra Way CDC | 7/21/09 | $35,482 | ||||
| 11 Lyra Way CDC | 1/19/10 | $818,968 | ||||
| 24311 Fairway Lane CDC | 6/2/99 | ? | $250,000 | |||
| 24311 Fairway Lane CDC | 8/2/01 | $411,250 | ||||
| 24311 Fairway Lane CDC | 5/6/04 | $529,750 | ||||
| 24311 Fairway Lane CDC | 1/24/08 | $600,000 | ||||
| 30 Cliffhouse NC | 7/30/04 | $2,433,000 | $999,950 | $939,098 | ||
| 30 Cliffhouse NC | 8/16/05 | $2,600,000 | ||||
| 30 Cliffhouse NC | 6/22/07 | $500,000 | ||||
| 30 Cliffhouse NC | 1/20/09 | $57,181 | ||||
| 30 Cliffhouse NC | 4/22/09 | $2,778,480 | ||||
| 34 Surfspray NB | 11/18/05 | $3,070,000 | $2,302,288 | $153,485 | ||
| 34 Surfspray NB | 6/14/07 | $499,877 | ||||
| 34 Surfspray NB | 1/9/09 | $70,191 | ||||
| 34 Surfspray NB | 4/17/09 | $2,449,391 | ||||
| 41 Sparrowhawk IRV | 11/30/99 | $55,000 | ||||
| 41 Sparrowhawk IRV | 1/17/03 | $227,500 | ||||
| 41 Sparrowhawk IRV | 5/6/04 | $308,000 | ||||
| 41 Sparrowhawk IRV | 5/11/04 | |||||
| 41 Sparrowhawk IRV | 1/23/07 | $574,000 | ||||
| 41 Sparrowhawk IRV | 11/30/09 | $9,430 | ||||
| 1010 Calle de los Arboles SC | 1/21/03 | $657,000 | $525,300 | $65,600 | ||
| 1010 Calle de los Arboles SC | 5/17/05 | $840,450 | ||||
| 121 E. Avenida Cornelio SC | 6/2/99 | $294,000 | ||||
| 121 E. Avenida Cornelio SC | 6/8/99 | $81,000 | ||||
| 121 E. Avenida Cornelio SC | 1/9/01 | $437,500 | $62,500 | |||
| 121 E. Avenida Cornelio SC | 6/5/02 | $637,625 | ||||
| 121 E. Avenida Cornelio SC | 2/15/05 | $150,000 | ||||
| 121 E. Avenida Cornelio SC | 2/25/08 | $750,000 | ||||
| 2106 Colina del Arco Iris SC | 12/23/02 | $799,500 | $639,400 | $79,920 | ||
| 2106 Colina del Arco Iris SC | 1/30/04 | $721,000 | ||||
| 2106 Colina del Arco Iris SC | 2/2/04 | $150,000 | ||||
| 2106 Colina del Arco Iris SC | 8/15/05 | $250,000 | ||||
| 21338 Andalusia HB | 3/22/05 | $1,800,500 | $1,000,000 | $464,336 | ||
| 21338 Andalusia HB | 10/3/06 | $710,000 | ||||
| 419 N. Olive St. ANA | 2/2/09 | $353,000 | $264,750 | |||
| 973 Blue Heron SB | 7/31/06 | $1,795,000 | $1,435,652 | $179,457 | ||
| 973 Blue Heron SB | 7/2/09 | $72,180 | ||||
| 973 Blue Heron SB | 10/9/09 | $1,582,624 | ||||
| 37 Hedgerow IRV | 9/2/03 | $1,252,000 | $999,950 | $126,449 | ||
| 37 Hedgerow IRV | 4/4/06 | $789,402 | ||||
| 37 Hedgerow IRV | 1/6/09 | ? | ||||
| 37 Hedgerow IRV | 4/13/09 | ? | ||||
| 2419 Camino Oleada SC | 9/17/03 | ? | $638,662 | $79,832 | ||
| 2419 Camino Oleada SC | 11/1/05 | $400,000 | ||||
| 2419 Camino Oleada SC | 3/27/06 | $487,000 | ||||
| 6304 Camino Marinero SC | 1/31/01 | $761,500 | $609,032 | |||
| 6304 Camino Marinero SC | 10/15/02 | $31,000 | ||||
| 6304 Camino Marinero SC | 5/30/03 | $633,750 | ||||
| 6304 Camino Marinero SC | 10/19/04 | $900,000 | ||||
| 6304 Camino Marinero SC | 4/12/07 | $913,500 | ||||
| 6304 Camino Marinero SC | 7/17/09 | $33,985 | ||||
| 6304 Camino Marinero SC | 10/22/09 | $1,024,397 | ||||
| 2 Via Subida DANA | 2/26/04 | $1,287,081 | ||||
| 2 Via Subida DANA | 2/28/05 | $1,592,500 | ||||
| 2 Via Subida DANA | 4/10/06 | $1,820,000 | ||||
| 2 Via Subida DANA | 12/27/06 | $1,820,000 | $180,000 | |||
| 2 Via Subida DANA | 3/25/09 | $43,897 | ||||
| 2 Via Subida DANA | 7/14/09 | $1,933,701 |
This second list shows the transactions by date of recording, which for me gives an idea of how busy the transactors must have been and graphically illustrates when the leveraging behavior was terminated.
| address | date | purchase price | 1st loan amount | 2nd loan amount | NOD | NTS |
| 11 Lyra Way CDC | 1/12/99 | $451,500 | $406,300 | |||
| 11 Lyra Way CDC | 5/12/99 | |||||
| 24311 Fairway Lane CDC | 6/2/99 | ? | $250,000 | |||
| 121 E. Avenida Cornelio SC | 6/2/99 | $294,000 | ||||
| 121 E. Avenida Cornelio SC | 6/8/99 | $81,000 | ||||
| 52 Panorama CDC | 7/29/99 | $839,000 | $587,270 | |||
| 11 Lyra Way CDC | 8/19/99 | $573,750 | ||||
| 41 Sparrowhawk IRV | 11/30/99 | $55,000 | ||||
| 52 Panorama CDC | 6/20/00 | $862,500 | ||||
| 16 Hubbard Way CDC | 7/31/00 | $599,500 | $479,442 | |||
| 121 E. Avenida Cornelio SC | 1/9/01 | $437,500 | $62,500 | |||
| 6304 Camino Marinero SC | 1/31/01 | $761,500 | $609,032 | |||
| 16 Hubbard Way CDC | 2/21/01 | $600,000 | ||||
| 24311 Fairway Lane CDC | 8/2/01 | $411,250 | ||||
| 52 Panorama CDC | 8/21/01 | $937,500 | ||||
| 17 Douglass CDC | 9/28/01 | $684,500 | $547,350 | $68,400 | ||
| 121 E. Avenida Cornelio SC | 6/5/02 | $637,625 | ||||
| 16 Hubbard Way CDC | 10/11/02 | $700,000 | ||||
| 6304 Camino Marinero SC | 10/15/02 | $31,000 | ||||
| 52 Panorama CDC | 11/13/02 | $926,250 | ||||
| 9 Rocky Mountain CDC | 12/10/02 | $1,281,500 | $961,086 | |||
| 2106 Colina del Arco Iris SC | 12/23/02 | $799,500 | $639,400 | $79,920 | ||
| 17 Douglass CDC | 1/9/03 | $700,000 | $87,500 | |||
| 41 Sparrowhawk IRV | 1/17/03 | $227,500 | ||||
| 1010 Calle de los Arboles SC | 1/21/03 | $657,000 | $525,300 | $65,600 | ||
| 6304 Camino Marinero SC | 5/30/03 | $633,750 | ||||
| 37 Hedgerow IRV | 9/2/03 | $1,252,000 | $999,950 | $126,449 | ||
| 16 Hubbard Way CDC | 9/5/03 | $840,000 | ||||
| 2419 Camino Oleada SC | 9/17/03 | ? | $638,662 | $79,832 | ||
| 11 Lyra Way CDC | 12/3/03 | $80,000 | ||||
| 9 Rocky Mountain CDC | 12/12/03 | $1,400,000 | ||||
| 2106 Colina del Arco Iris SC | 1/30/04 | $721,000 | ||||
| 2106 Colina del Arco Iris SC | 2/2/04 | $150,000 | ||||
| 2 Via Subida DANA | 2/26/04 | $1,287,081 | ||||
| 24311 Fairway Lane CDC | 5/6/04 | $529,750 | ||||
| 41 Sparrowhawk IRV | 5/6/04 | $308,000 | ||||
| 41 Sparrowhawk IRV | 5/11/04 | |||||
| 52 Panorama CDC | 6/9/04 | $920,000 | $300,000 | |||
| 30 Cliffhouse NC | 7/30/04 | $2,433,000 | $999,950 | $939,098 | ||
| 16 Hubbard Way CDC | 8/31/04 | $1,007,500 | ||||
| 6304 Camino Marinero SC | 10/19/04 | $900,000 | ||||
| 6 Observatory NB | 1/28/05 | $2,649,500 | $1,854,531 | $264,933 | ||
| 121 E. Avenida Cornelio SC | 2/15/05 | $150,000 | ||||
| 2 Via Subida DANA | 2/28/05 | $1,592,500 | ||||
| 11 Lyra Way CDC | 3/3/05 | $577,500 | ||||
| 21338 Andalusia HB | 3/22/05 | $1,800,500 | $1,000,000 | $464,336 | ||
| 1010 Calle de los Arboles SC | 5/17/05 | $840,450 | ||||
| 2106 Colina del Arco Iris SC | 8/15/05 | $250,000 | ||||
| 30 Cliffhouse NC | 8/16/05 | $2,600,000 | ||||
| 2419 Camino Oleada SC | 11/1/05 | $400,000 | ||||
| 34 Surfspray NB | 11/18/05 | $3,070,000 | $2,302,288 | $153,485 | ||
| 9 Rocky Mountain CDC | 1/18/06 | $250,000 | ||||
| 2419 Camino Oleada SC | 3/27/06 | $487,000 | ||||
| 37 Hedgerow IRV | 4/4/06 | $789,402 | ||||
| 2 Via Subida DANA | 4/10/06 | $1,820,000 | ||||
| 11 Lyra Way CDC | 4/28/06 | $738,000 | ||||
| 9 Rocky Mountain CDC | 7/20/06 | $1,670,000 | ||||
| 973 Blue Heron SB | 7/31/06 | $1,795,000 | $1,435,652 | $179,457 | ||
| 21338 Andalusia HB | 10/3/06 | $710,000 | ||||
| 16 Hubbard Way CDC | 10/13/06 | $250,000 | ||||
| 2 Via Subida DANA | 12/27/06 | $1,820,000 | $180,000 | |||
| 41 Sparrowhawk IRV | 1/23/07 | $574,000 | ||||
| 6304 Camino Marinero SC | 4/12/07 | $913,500 | ||||
| 34 Surfspray NB | 6/14/07 | $499,877 | ||||
| 30 Cliffhouse NC | 6/22/07 | $500,000 | ||||
| 24311 Fairway Lane CDC | 1/24/08 | $600,000 | ||||
| 121 E. Avenida Cornelio SC | 2/25/08 | $750,000 | ||||
| 37 Hedgerow IRV | 1/6/09 | ? | ||||
| 34 Surfspray NB | 1/9/09 | $70,191 | ||||
| 30 Cliffhouse NC | 1/20/09 | $57,181 | ||||
| 419 N. Olive St. ANA | 2/2/09 | $353,000 | $264,750 | |||
| 2 Via Subida DANA | 3/25/09 | $43,897 | ||||
| 37 Hedgerow IRV | 4/13/09 | ? | ||||
| 34 Surfspray NB | 4/17/09 | $2,449,391 | ||||
| 30 Cliffhouse NC | 4/22/09 | $2,778,480 | ||||
| 973 Blue Heron SB | 7/2/09 | $72,180 | ||||
| 2 Via Subida DANA | 7/14/09 | $1,933,701 | ||||
| 6304 Camino Marinero SC | 7/17/09 | $33,985 | ||||
| 11 Lyra Way CDC | 7/21/09 | $35,482 | ||||
| 52 Panorama CDC | 9/23/09 | $5,977 | ||||
| 16 Hubbard Way CDC | 9/23/09 | $5,973 | ||||
| 17 Douglass CDC | 9/23/09 | $6,016 | ||||
| 9 Rocky Mountain CDC | 9/23/09 | $6,017 | ||||
| 973 Blue Heron SB | 10/9/09 | $1,582,624 | ||||
| 6304 Camino Marinero SC | 10/22/09 | $1,024,397 | ||||
| 41 Sparrowhawk IRV | 11/30/09 | $9,430 | ||||
| 11 Lyra Way CDC | 1/19/10 | $818,968 |
Sighburdewd
January 1st, 2010
Wow! Interesting post, and a lot of work, I’m sure. One of this couple is a Realtor with a local – RSM company – so they presumably saved a good portion of their down payments using their selling commissions.
I wonder if any of their “tenants” are going to have a surprise visit from the eviction deputies?
C Delroy Spuckler
January 1st, 2010
The one which amazes me… 419 N. Olive. They appear to have 3 NOD’s when they got a loan on this place. Is it just an issue that they were close enough that the bank might not have had access to this info yet? Or do they not care?
In regard to Sighberdewds comment, how do NOD/NTS work… do they have to post them at the property? (AKA will the tennant stand a good chance of knowing immediately, or if you are renting is there a reasonable chance you could go awhile not knowing your place is in default?)
Another question, if someone knows… if you are going to get into real estate ownership professionally, don’t you buy under an LLC? These homes all appear to be listed until the real names. Is there enough protection in real estate investing (they can only take the home?) that you don’t need an LLC?
Paul
January 1st, 2010
It looks to me like the 419 N Olive is the house they plan to live in. As their empire started to crash, they bought a house they could afford on a normal income. If they have to they let the investment houses go back to the lenders, but I bet they try to keep this one.
South County
January 1st, 2010
These folks are not idiots, they know exactly what they are doing. They are striping out the loans on the properties. I am sure what you found is only a small number of properties involved. With this number of properties you have to work the hell out of the system, they did not come up with this plan from watching tv.
You could contact the Orange County Sheriffs Department fraud unit with your information, they will take your information on real estate fraud.
This is not one or two properties and represents a lot of money. Thanks for your post have a happy new year.
timm eubanks
January 1st, 2010
Ok Sherlock… This is a great post! As you said, this represents exactly how our govt does business. Wow, we are in deep S#@*!
Socalsnail
January 1st, 2010
Do we have any real estate lawyers reading this?
Seriously, this goes way beyond irrational exuberance. This smacks of major fraud (that can be unraveled and prosecuted). I’m assuming that cash was stripped out of every house. Did it just go to the downpayments on the next property? I’d love to get a look at the loan applications. My guess is there was just a wee bit of exaggeration (lying) regarding income and debt, etc.
Lastly, do any of the lenders go after non-recourse loans that default? My understanding is that when you buy a house, the First trust deed is Recourse and if you lose the house the lender can’t come after you personally for their losses. However, if you refi or take out a second trust deed or more then that is a Recourse debt and the lender can go after you personally. Throughout this whole housing melt down, I have not seen anything written about people losing more than their house. I realize that bankruptcy might discharge any debts. I’m wondering if the recourse lenders are going after the borrowers personally.
Anyone know? (not that I have ulterior motives for the unused line of credit I have on my house).
Socalsnail
January 1st, 2010
I meant to say that First trust deed is non-recourse.@Socalsnail
Special K
January 1st, 2010
@C Delroy Spuckler
If you are renting a house that has an NOD filed there are two ways to find out:
1. Your realtor tells you before you lease
2. Sign up for a site like foreclosureradar.com to check
Most people dont know. For instance, a new neighbor of mine signed a lease on a house in NOD, in conversation I brought this up when I met them and they had no clue this was the case. So both realtors, theirs and selling agent didnt inform them, which is a joke. I am leasing and watch for a filing weekly just in case, these days so many people are playing the game of leasing a house and pocketing the cash it is fairly widespread in South OC.
What idiot banks lent to the people subject of this post? This people are scum
C Delroy Spuckler
January 1st, 2010
@Socalsnail
One thing to watch.. Just because numerous people may have made bad financial decision does not mean something illegal occurred. There are tons of failed businesses out there.
South County
January 1st, 2010
Lets see, all single family homes and none sold for a profit? Of course you if you sell one at a nice profit the escrow gal gets your ss number and the sale is reported to the IRS. Lets see what is the number of homes just in Coto? six. What is the number found 20? in Orange County. Ok its a nice hard working couple so they sell one every two years for the $500k tax free gain allowed under the tax law. This is not good because they have upward of 20 single family homes, the tax man is comming. So a normal investor would sell at a profit and would tax defer the gain in a 1031 to cash flow properties, thats how the real world works. Or the couple justs pull all of the cash out of the properties and no capital gains are reported to the IRS.
C Delroy Spuckler
January 1st, 2010
@South County
How does the exemption on taxing “gains” from a short sale / foreclosure / loan mod work… is it only for your primary residence or did they let you have that sweet deal for investment property as well.
South County
January 1st, 2010
The only exemption from capital gains is on your primary residence living in the home for two of the last five years, $500K for a couple. These folks had six in Coto alone, the homes are rentals thus investment properties. When the investment properties are sold for a profit they are subject to capital gains. There is no way out of the capital gains tax on the investment properties, but they may be defered in a IRS 1031 tax defered trade to a more expensive investment property. The gain on the sold property is rolled into the new more expensive property.
Now are Coto couple is not paying any tax on any of the gains. Hell they just sucked all the cash out of the homes and nothing is reported to the IRS, remember if you sell the properties the sale is reported through escrow to the IRS.
It makes me sick to see people like this in our neighborhood. This is not a family making bad business decisions, they are out to steel.
cdcrez
January 1st, 2010
Since the properties are investment/rental properties, depreciation is being taken on the non-land portion of the investment. Taxes will have to be paid on the recapture, and there is no legal method to avoid that tax. Foreclosure is treated as a sale for income tax purposes and the recapture will be assessed for the tax year in which the foreclosure occurs. Tax year 2010 will not be good for these land barons. One or two of you will ask, what if they did not claim depreciation. First, they claimed the depreciation. Second, income tax is assessed on recapture based on depreciation allowable, not depreciation claimed. Ouch! There is currently no exemption for capital gains on forgiven debt on business or investment property, therefore cap gains tax will be assessed on any recognized capital gains on foreclosed property, even if not realized. Nice, eh?
C Delroy Spuckler
January 1st, 2010
Probably being a bit harsh. They haven’t paid taxes on the properties listed, because they haven’t sold them yet. I don’t see any tax leins in their name so my assumption is they are paying the taxes they are supposed to.
We can’t say if they are making bad decisions or are out to steal, because we do not know their motives, and there is always room for interpretation. One man’s greed might be another man’s definition a shrewd investor.
Realize that in our country, with the exception of Warren Buffet, most people who made alot of money did so by having a very concentrated portfolio and taking some risks and some leverage. This includes guys like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, etc. Just look at what happened to T. Boone Pickens the past few years. Part of taking a risk and leverage is it works both ways.
These people do not appear to be flippers playing a hot market, they started at least in 99. Look at their history, they appear to be people trying to build a portfolio. I’d have to do the math to see if they were making their money by taking out equity, or if most of the equity they took out got immediately rolled into new purchases, and their income was off rental income.
I don’t know these people, but I think we do need to be careful what assumptions we make or what we say about them. There are alot of failed businesses. Are they any worse than the guy who takes out a loan to start a restaurant and that restaurant fails and they default on that loan? Or say that restaurant was successful, they guy opens up another, which is successful, then opens up another, bad times hit, and they all start failing.
ES
January 5th, 2010
@C Delroy Spuckler
yes- you do need to form an LLC or you can become personally liable. There is no deficiency judgment in CA but I believe that’s only for your residence.
The caveat with forming an LLC is that the company must be properly funded in order to maintain the assets. I’m sure there is some CA case law or rule under the laws of incorporation that says you have to have X amount of dollars in a piggy bank in case of asset foreclosure based on the value of the assets, otherwise they can come after the incorporators, board, CEO, whatever.
cdcrez
January 5th, 2010
There is no deficiency judgement in CA on a for purchase 1st mortgage. With refis, HELOCs, 2nds, etc., all bets are off. Right?